Pepper spray for dogs?

Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby RobinTaiwan » 11 Mar 2010, 19:10

jimipresley wrote:
itakitez wrote:
so here's a cop in the US (I think) using a taser on a dog.

That cop seemed to be walking rather nonchalantly past the dog. He was quite aloof, I thought. Imagine if he'd stood his ground and ignored it? :roflmao:
Imagine if that was a small child...

Fully agree with bismark. That's one scary dog.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby jimipresley » 11 Mar 2010, 19:28

I don't mean to question Mr Straydog's theory and methods. They are, by and large, extremely sound. Problem is, I've been attacked on numerous occasions by dogs broadsiding me or nibbling from behind. I had nary a chance to stand my ground nor gaze wistfully into the horizon. Those dudes were after blood.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby bismarck » 12 Mar 2010, 00:35

RobinTaiwan wrote:
jimipresley wrote:
itakitez wrote:
so here's a cop in the US (I think) using a taser on a dog.

That cop seemed to be walking rather nonchalantly past the dog. He was quite aloof, I thought. Imagine if he'd stood his ground and ignored it? :roflmao:
Imagine if that was a small child...

Fully agree with bismark. That's one scary dog.


jimipresley wrote:I don't mean to question Mr Straydog's theory and methods. They are, by and large, extremely sound. Problem is, I've been attacked on numerous occasions by dogs broadsiding me or nibbling from behind. I had nary a chance to stand my ground nor gaze wistfully into the horizon. Those dudes were after blood.

Yeah, I would never hurt an animal if I could avoid it, but to protect my or another child I doubt I could just stand there and gaze off into the sunset if charged like that. And if a dog did bite my child there would be hell to pay for the dog and it's owner.

But generally speaking, especially in Taiwan, I think the advice in this thread is pretty good. When charged here it's always been a mock attack. Nothing like the dog in the video. It may have something to do with how the dog is being raised, as it's still a fairly young pup (six months, I think they said in the vid).
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby Stray Dog » 12 Mar 2010, 02:38

Looks to me like that dog wasn't out to attack. The officer said the dog grabbed his foot, but the video shows that didn't happen. We also heard that the Rottweiler 'tried' to bite a pedestrian and a child; I'm sure that Rottie could have easily bitten if he had wanted to. In the video, you can see that the dog's tail is mostly parallel with the ground, but a dominant-aggressive dog will have his tail upright. A debatable, point, admittedly, and I'm certain that, indeed, they believed they were witnessing an aggressive dog.

What's not debatable is that the kick in the head did nothing to deter the dog. He still kept coming (although playfully it seemed after the initial charge). What made him back away? When the officer put something in his face (in this case his gun)--just as you saw in the video link about how to deter an aggressive dog.

If that was really a dangerous dog, he would be off the street now. He hasn't bitten anybody. Seems more like an overly energetic and unsocialized dog than an aggressive one if you ask me.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby k.k. » 12 Mar 2010, 09:06

bismarck wrote:
jimipresley wrote:
itakitez wrote:
so here's a cop in the US (I think) using a taser on a dog.

That cop seemed to be walking rather nonchalantly past the dog. He was quite aloof, I thought. Imagine if he'd stood his ground and ignored it? :roflmao:

That dog was definitely going to bite him. Not so sure about the standing your ground bit anymore. I have great respect for what Straydog does, and I value his opinion, but if I'm with my son and a dog comes at us like that I'm not going to just stand and wait to see if standing there gets my son bit or not.

I think the officer acted correctly and I agree with his opinion at the end.

Yup. I agree with bismarck on that. Calls into question the whole "standing your ground" theory.

I too have respect for what Straydog does, and value his opinion, but I have to be honest, it diminishes somewhat when I see him type "Looks to me like that dog wasn't out to attack." in response to the latest video clip posted.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby scomargo » 12 Mar 2010, 10:38

Stray Dog wrote:What's not debatable is that the kick in the head did nothing to deter the dog. He still kept coming (although playfully it seemed after the initial charge). What made him back away? When the officer put something in his face (in this case his gun)--just as you saw in the video link about how to deter an aggressive dog.

Stray Dog, you may very well be right about that, but to my untrained eye, it looks like the dog backing away from the first officer had more to do with the second officer being present, and especially with the taser being used, than it did with the gun being drawn.

I have two small children (roughly 4 y.o.), and they are still afraid when large dogs approach them. I try to teach them to be calm, but it's not a natural thing for them to do. Is there any good advice for how to deal with aggressive dogs that approach them? I guess I'm asking for advice for myself, because it might take many months/years before they're able to practice any kind of rational behavior around large dogs.

If my children panic when they see a dog, and the dog winds up getting agitated and attacks them, what should I do? I'm not proud of this, but I fear that I would seriously consider kicking the crap out of a dog if it attacked or drew blood from either of my children if I couldn't see another safe way of handling things.

Thanks for answering all of these questions in this topic. You do good work, and the animals of Taiwan are lucky that you've made this island your home.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby sandman » 12 Mar 2010, 10:45

I have a problem with my kid. He's far too friendly toward unknown dogs. He tends to approach them with his hand out, making a "here boy" gesture with his fingers and clicking his tongue. I'm serious. Its dead cute, and he's too little to go out on his own, so he's never in danger, but I'm worried that when he gets bigger its going to cause him some grief and possibly injury.
He's mimicking me, I know, but how am I supposed to instill in him awareness that not all dogs are amenable to being approached like that without also instilling a general fear of dogs, which I definitely DO NOT want to do?
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby Stray Dog » 12 Mar 2010, 11:35

For kids, they have to understand that the dog must want to approach them, and that he wants to smell them first, but not with the hand out, which, to temperamental dogs, is a threatening move. I think kids need to learn how to understand body language, but that, most of all, they should not approach any strange dog. They will, of course, learn as they grow which situations are more dangerous than others.

Re. if a dog bit a child, then, yes, use force to get the dog off (I saw a video of someone using a baseball bat to make a pit bull let go of someone's hand). If the dog won't let go still, you have to roll him and hold his neck, with your weight on his hind. What yu must NOT do is cause things to escalate by shouting, screaming, or continually hitting (if it didn't work the first time). No matter what the situation is, the more calm you are, the less aggressive the dog will be.

I can see that some of you think my post above is some kind of excuse, but I'm giving my honest opinion. The kick failed; putting something between the officer and the dog worked (the second officer made his presence known only after the dog started to bounce away from the first). Watch attack videos; you'll see an erect tail. If you want to use this video as reason to kick dogs approaching you, then I would have to strongly disagree and wish you luck. Watch the video I posted; it's the best advice I can give and still is.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby Stray Dog » 12 Mar 2010, 11:45

scomargo, I'll think more about your question and respond more later, but experience is a great teacher, and of course it must be safe experience. I show how an aggressive dog behind a fence or in a cage will stop barking and bearing teeth if you just go and sit close to (touching if poss) the barrier between you (if it's safe) and let the dog smell. Nothing else. No looking at the dog, no touching the dog, no saying anything to the dog. The dog will calm down and smell you and then put his head down and back away calmly.

I think if kids can see that in practice, they will be better prepared for when a real situation occurs. You could also practice with a friendly but boisterous dog (muzzle if you're not absolutely certain). What I'd do for the kids in my community is to bring out my most boisterous dog, Cookie, and tell the kids to stand behind the fence and watch. Then I'd act crazy, running, shouting, waving arms, pretending to kick the dog, etc., and ask the kids what Cookie would do (she's chase me, be very focused on me, jump, try to bite waving sticks, etc.). Then, in the middle of all the action, I'd just stop. Stand motionless. Ignore the dog. Then I'd ask the kids what Cookie would do in response (she's lose interest, calm down, and walk off or stand still).

Practicing with kids in this way, much as you would a fire drill, gives them a model to follow when a situation occurs, and, again like a fire drill, keeps them safe because it helps them stay calm.
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Re: Pepper spray for dogs?

Postby Gao Bohan » 15 Mar 2010, 11:30

k.k. wrote:Yup. I agree with bismarck on that. Calls into question the whole "standing your ground" theory.


That's because it doesn't always work. Stray Dog is writing as if his experiences translate to a mathematical formula for dealing with ferocious, charging animals. Pure nonsense. It's amazing how eager he and others have been to trumpet the success of their technique while impatiently dismissing the experiences of anyone else. Sometimes the staring off into the distance thing works. Sometimes it doesn't.

No reasonable person is going to stand still while a Rottweiler/Pit Bull/German Shepherd or any large, vicious dog is literally within seconds of taking a chunk out of their flesh. The height of lunacy here was when it was suggested that defending oneself against a charging dog will result is a criminal conviction for animal abuse. Talk about diminishing one's credibility. :roll: The policeman who responded to my report was firmly on my side, as was the investigator who followed up the next day. This is just basic common sense. People have a right to defend themselves against threatening animals.

I'd like to get a little more feedback on people's experiences with using pepper spray as a deterrent. The policeman who took my statement said that some dogs are barely annoyed by it and recommended I buy a police baton. I did so and I have since used it to scare off two dogs that ran after me at the same time. It's hard to imagine a dog not being stopped in its tracks by pepper spray, but I'm sure the police officer knows what he's talking about. Anybody used pepper spray against threatening dogs?
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