wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby TheGingerMan » 08 Jan 2012, 14:53

I would take a stand and not allow any crap from the Godlings.
Once a heathen, one can always claim ignorance, and blissfully revel in one's own pagan rituals.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Vay » 08 Jan 2012, 15:14

Tempo Gain wrote:How many kids are going to make that choice though, to not go through with Confirmation in a family that cares. Even if a kid doesn't believe, they'll still go along not to rock the boat. The pressure would be huge. The real choice is independent of any of those ceremonies.


A-bloody-men. That was totally my experience, and had that stuff kicking around in my head for nearly four decades. Which is why I'm totally against indoctrinating children at a young age. And why I'm going to have to do my best to counter whatever stuff those people try to fill my child's head with.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby kitkat » 08 Jan 2012, 15:18

Here's the Rite in English. You'll need godparents. Usually the parents present the baby for baptism, and you are promising to raise the child in the Catholic faith. There is also a whole section where you profess your faith, in a series of Do you..... "I do" questions, including belief in the main points of the Catholic faith. So yes. You'd have to lie, repeatedly.

http://www.saintanthonynewbedford.com/pdfs/RiteOfBaptism.pdf
Perhaps you could compromise by letting your wife and MIL present the baby for baptism. Assuming the service would be in Mandarin, you could either hide behind the language barrier, or perhaps explain to the priest that you believe the mother and grandmother as devout Catholics are better placed to present the child for baptism , as you intend to leave the spiritual side to them. No idea if the priest would accept that though, but since he will probably be your MIL's priest and you say she's pretty devout perhaps it would be okay. You could avoid grandma getting upset with your non-compliance by painting it as an honour and acknowledgement of her faith for her, rather than an out for you perhaps.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby ChewDawg » 08 Jan 2012, 15:24

Which is why I'm totally against indoctrinating children at a young age.


That wasn't true when I received the sacraments in grade school. Because the Catholic education system was far superior to the public one, we had lots of other faiths enrolled in the school and Catholics that just didn't want to receive anything further. When time came for enrollment, it was a matter between the student and his parents. If anything, my parents didn't want me to. However,they let me choose. The Catholics aren't too evangelical so I wouldn't worry too much about brainwashing :lol:

If you end up baptizing your baby but don't send him to school within the religion, it will definitely be a personal choice on whether he/she receives anything additional.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Mucha Man » 08 Jan 2012, 16:25

From the Catholic enquiry centre:

Q: I am a Catholic but my husband is not. We would like to have our baby daughter baptized. Does it matter that one of us is not Catholic?

Baptism is the sacrament of initiation into the Church, and bringing children into the family of God through the Church requires parental consent, even if one of them is not themselves baptised.

The non-Catholic parent can have a part to play in the baptismal ceremony, and is free to choose the extent to which he is involved. Some questions he might choose to respond to, others he might choose to remain silent and have you answer.

These are indicative of the questions asked of the parents during the ceremony:

What name have you given your child?
What do you ask of God's church for N.?
The priest then says: 'You have asked to have your child baptised. In doing so you are accepting responsibility for bringing her up in the practice of the faith. It will be your duty to bring her up to follow Christ's teaching, by loving God and our neighbour. Do you clearly understand what you are undertaking?’

You are invited to profess your faith. Sometimes, you do this with the whole community.

Following this, and immediately prior to the baptism of your child the priest asks you: ‘Is it your will that your child should be baptised in the faith of the Church, which we have all professed with you?’

Parents are invited to participate in the ceremony in other ways. For example, either one of you holds the child. You are invited to trace the sign of the cross on the child's forehead. Either you or godparent puts a white garment on your child as a sign of being clothed with Christ and as a sign of Christian dignity. Either you or godparent lights your child's baptismal candle from the Paschal Candle.

At the end of the ceremony the celebrant blesses individually the mother and the father of the child.

All of this you can discuss with the celebrant during the preparation for the baptism.


Anyway, I'm with Chewie (I'm also another agnostic free-thinking product of the Catholic school system) that it's not much of a big deal and that a certain native awareness of religion is useful when one goes through life. Like it or not, most of the world's peoples are religious, and most of the world's art, music, history and politics is informed by religious belief.
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Tempo Gain » 08 Jan 2012, 16:50

ChewDawg wrote:That wasn't true when I received the sacraments in grade school. Because the Catholic education system was far superior to the public one, we had lots of other faiths enrolled in the school and Catholics that just didn't want to receive anything further. When time came for enrollment, it was a matter between the student and his parents. If anything, my parents didn't want me to. However,they let me choose. The Catholics aren't too evangelical so I wouldn't worry too much about brainwashing :lol:


That's cool, your school wasn't like my school. I may have a few years on you, and lived in a more Catholic community.

Muzha Man wrote:From the Catholic enquiry centre:


Nice post, MM.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Vay » 08 Jan 2012, 17:00

Muzha Man wrote:Anyway, I'm with Chewie (I'm also another agnostic free-thinking product of the Catholic school system) that it's not much of a big deal and that a certain native awareness of religion is useful when one goes through life. Like it or not, most of the world's peoples are religious, and most of the world's art, music, history and politics is informed by religious belief.


I wouldn't use the word "informed", but anyway thank you for the post MM. That seems to suggest I don't have to lie, which is great news for me. While I don't believe words have any magic power, I certainly do try to adhere to my promises and don't want to make commitments I don't intend to keep (or worse yet, intend to actively subvert!) If there are any classes, since I'm allowed to be non-Catholic, I guess that means my wife is gonna be stuck going to them :lol:
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Ex Animo » 08 Jan 2012, 17:08

I say go along with it, much as many of us might join in with the saying of grace when guests for dinner or attending a church wedding.

Re. the lying: You don't believe in the person you're lying to, so it doesn't really matter. See it more as role-playing or acting for the sake of an important ceremony to welcome your child to the world and the family. Whilst I too am not religious, I do see the immense benefit in many religious ceremonies.

I was baptised Catholic; it means nothing to me (other than I was able to get out of certain school ceremonies on religious grounds :whistle: ).

And congratulations by the way!
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Fox » 08 Jan 2012, 17:08

My mother-in-law is a devout Catholic, and I can as much as bet she's going to be pretty insistent about a baptism for our unborn daughter.


My mother is always asking me to get my kids baptized. I tell her its not healthy to be caught up in cults.
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Re: wife pregnant, mother-in-law is devout Catholic...

Postby Vay » 08 Jan 2012, 17:45

Taiwan Animal SOS wrote:I say go along with it, much as many of us might join in with the saying of grace when guests for dinner or attending a church wedding.

Re. the lying: You don't believe in the person you're lying to, so it doesn't really matter. See it more as role-playing or acting for the sake of an important ceremony to welcome your child to the world and the family. Whilst I too am not religious, I do see the immense benefit in many religious ceremonies.

I was baptised Catholic; it means nothing to me (other than I was able to get out of certain school ceremonies on religious grounds :whistle: ).

And congratulations by the way!


Thanks Sean, I'm pretty stoked.

As far as the role-playing, it's no big deal really, but if I can get through it without acting or making false commitments - as MM's post seems to suggest, so much the better. I have fairly strong principles on such matters, though I do try to remain flexible and consider other people's feelings to a reasonable degree.
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