We're not flying with our kids again till 2016

[tomthorne]

No, I think the point is that even us dried-up childless antisocial crones recognize there is a difference between a parent making a reasonable effort to prevent his/her child from being a disturbance and a parent who doesn't give a crap what the kid does. There are far more of the second kind these days than when most of us were being brought up, it seems.

Fair point. My third comment might have come across as a little harsh and you're definitely on the money that parenting skills have declined. I'm not sure what can be done about it on an aircraft, though. If a kid is badly behaved and the parents are crap, telling either the kid or the parents off isn't going to make things easier during the flight. Perhaps if enough people write letters of complain to the airline after the flight then they may realise that it could be good for their business to have a separate section for families.

[Got To Be Kidding]

I'm pretty much at the trailing edge of the Baby Boomers, and it's been interesting to see how the difference in parenting styles have affected society.

Boomers were heavily disciplined as children, and we turned out to be reasonably well-adjusted and in control. IMHO - each successive generation seems to have become less and less in control of themselves - and less productive. In fact, I can usually tell how old a person is by how incontinent their rhetoric is.

Of course, some kids are just screamers and no amount of discipline will change that.

My question is why do people consider the use of duct tape to be child abuse?

[sandman]

sandman is right: if the airline sells you a full fare for your 2 year old child, they better be prepared to help deal with any tantrums.

ESPECIALLY when you intimate that the kid might be problematic beforehand, when you're buying the ticket. "No, no, no! No problem at ALL, sir! Thank you for choosing Wetryless Airlines!" We (parents) and aircrew make EVERY fricking effort to keep disturbance to a minimum. Unlike 250-pound drunk dude stuck in the only vacant toilet for 20 minutes. You HONESTLY think we take our kids on longhaul flights for FUN? Seriously?
No, when push comes to shove, you try your best to minimize the disturbance, even though the LAST place on earth you want to be is on a plane with a fractious, scared and bored child. And when you're paying top-dollar for your kid to have a seat, then after a while, as I said, its a case of: "Fuck you, Jack! Talk to the aircrew because EYE am tired of listening to you. THEY are the ones who let the kid on the plane, not me. I simply paid a great deal of money." If you are incapable of doing that, then maybe it is YOU who should think about taking a slow boat next time.

[sandman]

My question is why do people consider the use of duct tape to be child abuse?

The duct tape loosens with continued applications of child-spit, and what follows is a weird whistling screech that is even more annoying than the crying. Trust me. I know.
But seriously? Apart from child-kicking-back-of-seat brat, I've never really been bothered by crying kids on planes, even when I was pre-child. Sure, I've been snapped out of a horrible in-flight half doze by a sudden squall, but in my experience, it lasts a few seconds and then all is *ahem* quiet again.

[Petrichor]

Oh dear, this thread has brought out my PTSD symptoms. I have had two horrible flights with children - my own. The first was when we were flying from Melbourne to Bangkok about 15 years ago when my perfectly behaved, easy-going, quiet 18 month old child cried the whole way, for no apparent reason at all. I did everything I could think of to no avail. It was incredibly stressful and embarrassing, even though as far as I recall no one made a comment or even gave me a look. To cap it all, the minute we landed he fell into a deep sleep and had to be carried along with loads of luggage all the way through Bangkok airport (we were moving countries). Thankfully Thai attitudes to children are kind and the officials fast-tracked us through queues for immigration etc.

The second time I was flying back from Spain to England with a very stinky toddler. I looked and looked and could see nothing in his pants. I concluded he must be farting for England, so didn't do anything else till we landed. His daddy discovered the errant lump at the airport.

Until my youngest learned to read he could be quite difficult on flights. He's extremely active and being forced to sit still for long periods of time with nothing to do is torture to him. Even now he can't sit and watch a film all the way through, he'll be up and down all the time. On short haul flights without seatback screens it became a challenge to my ingenuity to keep him occupied. I used to take a small dvd player for the flight itself and boxes of soft fruit for the ascent and descent when all electronics had to be turned off, and slowly feed them to him, hoping the seat belt sign would go off before I ran out of fruit. But I do recall on one occasion having to hold him screaming in his seat until the seat belt signs were turned off. Luckily those flights were for British holidaymakers, so were full of screaming kids anyway.

As a result I have a lot of sympathy for parents of crying babies on flights and will offer to help if I'm sitting nearby. But I can't recall ever being really bothered by other people's children. Maybe I've just learned to screen out the noise. A couple of years ago we took a big trip that entailed lots of night flights, and at those times I was driven nearly frantic by people talking through the night. I think that's far worse than children, who at least have some excuse for being annoying and inconsiderate.

[sandman]

we took a big trip that entailed lots of night flights, and at those times I was driven nearly frantic by people talking through the night. I think that's far worse than children, who at least have some excuse for being annoying and inconsiderate.

MAN! I hear THAT! Lemme hear an "AMEN!"

[tsukinodeynatsu]

Boomers were heavily disciplined as children, and we turned out to be reasonably well-adjusted and in control.

Last I checked, you were the lot that caused the GFC and raised the next generation, weren't you?

Kids on flights don't really bother me. I am absolutely amazed at the number of people who don't give their kids sweets, dummies or bottles during take-off or landing though. It really, really, REALLY hurts when your ears pop, and sucking on something's about the only way to stop it.

[Dragonbones]

I always bring earplugs so I can sleep through MY child's tantrums.

Just kidding; he's a quiet angel, usually. (Isn't one's own always an angel?) I bring the earplugs to avoid listening to OTHER people's screaming larvae. So there's your solution -- earplugs for everyone.

[Got To Be Kidding]

Last I checked, you were the lot that caused the GFC and raised the next generation, weren't you?

That was unfairly truthful.

[Adam_CLO]

Looks like someone's been thinking of an answer: