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Seven Christian Concepts

Re: Seven Christian Concepts

Postby Formosa Fitness » 18 May 2015, 20:07

Il Ðoge wrote:Seventh: Charity is for your neighbors and your brothers, or for people who have honor; it's not something you are supposed to give to everyone unconditionally. If there are no conditions at all attached to charity then your charity is inviting people to break Christ's covenant and that is not what he intended when he told people to be charitable to their neighbors and brothers. As far as honor goes, people who have honor will respect your charity and might be able to become your brothers, so charity towards them is optional.


Yes, the concept of the deserving vs. undeserving poor. You know the ridicule you'll get for even bringing up the subject but it's a good distinction to make and depends on wisdom. Pretty much in line with Matthew 25:14-30. "Even that which you have will be taken away." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... 2025:14-30

Sounds like an interesting book. I hope you write it.
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Re: Seven Christian Concepts

Postby marasan » 19 May 2015, 08:49

Formosa Fitness wrote:
Il Ðoge wrote:Seventh: Charity is for your neighbors and your brothers, or for people who have honor; it's not something you are supposed to give to everyone unconditionally. If there are no conditions at all attached to charity then your charity is inviting people to break Christ's covenant and that is not what he intended when he told people to be charitable to their neighbors and brothers. As far as honor goes, people who have honor will respect your charity and might be able to become your brothers, so charity towards them is optional.


Yes, the concept of the deserving vs. undeserving poor. You know the ridicule you'll get for even bringing up the subject but it's a good distinction to make and depends on wisdom. Pretty much in line with Matthew 25:14-30. "Even that which you have will be taken away." https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... 2025:14-30

Sounds like an interesting book. I hope you write it.


I think I may agree with both of you- at least I seem to practice what both of you are saying when it comes to my charity work. But I don't believe it's Biblical. I think The Parable of the Good Samaritan is very instructive when it comes to this issue of charity.

Luke 10:25-37New International Version (NIV)
The Parable of the Good Samaritan

25 On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 “What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

27 He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’[a]; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b]”

28 “You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”

29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”

30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. 31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. 32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. 34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 The next day he took out two denarii[c] and gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’

36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”

37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”

Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”


From this short story, there's every indication that the Samaritan didn't know the man he helped (Samaritan and Jews and all that). There's no indication that the man who got mugged deserved any kind of help, and certainly no indication that the Samaritan even received a "thank you" for all that work (and danger- imagine an Indian carrying a sickly cowboy on his horse in earlier days).

Haddon Robinson, in his typical working class New Yorker style, put it like this (roughly):

"Who is your neighbor? Your neighbor is any one whose need you see, whose need God puts you in a position to meet. It's as simple and profound as that."
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Re: Seven Christian Concepts

Postby Il Ðoge » 24 May 2015, 20:20

Thanks guys!

I also found another passage that supports my interpretation of forgiveness. I would add that I think the entire point of Jesus Christ dying to forgive our sins is to say that forgiveness can have a price and a cost, it's not something that's meant to be free.

Specifically I'd add this, from Numbers 19 on:
19 In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now.”

20 The Lord replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, 22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it. 24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it. 25 Since the Amalekites and the Canaanites are living in the valleys, turn back tomorrow and set out toward the desert along the route to the Red Sea.[a]”


This is to say that God forgives but still punishes, and controls the terms of forgiveness. Being forgiven isn't necessarily a blank slate, it just means that no spite is born towards the one who's forgiven. This is spite or malice in the spiritual sense, you can still be forced to pay a consequent materially or physically even though you've been forgiven.
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Re: Seven Christian Concepts

Postby MikeN » 25 May 2015, 11:39

Il Ðoge wrote:Thanks guys!

I also found another passage that supports my interpretation of forgiveness. I would add that I think the entire point of Jesus Christ dying to forgive our sins is to say that forgiveness can have a price and a cost, it's not something that's meant to be free.

Specifically I'd add this, from Numbers 19 on:
19 In accordance with your great love, forgive the sin of these people, just as you have pardoned them from the time they left Egypt until now.”

20 The Lord replied, “I have forgiven them, as you asked. 21 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, 22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it. 24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it. 25 Since the Amalekites and the Canaanites are living in the valleys, turn back tomorrow and set out toward the desert along the route to the Red Sea.[a]”


This is to say that God forgives but still punishes, and controls the terms of forgiveness. Being forgiven isn't necessarily a blank slate, it just means that no spite is born towards the one who's forgiven. This is spite or malice in the spiritual sense, you can still be forced to pay a consequent materially or physically even though you've been forgiven.


Materially or physically, yes. Spiritually, it depends on the sect. Catholics have Purgatory, many Protestants believe in salvation through faith. Once you've accepted Jesus, everything previous is forgiven. As a sign of sincerity you should try to make up for your past sins, but it's certainly not a requirement.

But that is a different issue from what you were claiming:
Charity is for your neighbors and your brothers, or for people who have honor; it's not something you are supposed to give to everyone unconditionally. If there are no conditions at all attached to charity then your charity is inviting people to break Christ's covenant and that is not what he intended when he told people to be charitable to their neighbors and brothers. As far as honor goes, people who have honor will respect your charity and might be able to become your brothers, so charity towards them is optional.


I'm assuming by "charity" you are using the modern definition of actually helping people rather than just loving them in your heart. And in that case your belief is definitely unChristian, going by the standard interpretation for the last two thousand years.
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