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Is Islam a religion of peace?

Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby OrangeOrganics » 24 Dec 2015, 13:30



Nobody is an idiot, obviously there is diversity in thought between Muslims, but in general Sunni Islam has been in an 800 year slump of literalism. Focusing on the outliers, for whatever reason, doesn't avoid the reality that much of the Qur'an and the Hadith is not compatible with Western liberal beliefs and the majority of Muslims in the world take the Qur'an to be the direct word of God.

This kind of extreme militant cultural relativism is dangerous.
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby BrentGolf » 14 Feb 2016, 14:45

Zla'od wrote:For the sake of comparison, the Buddhists have a good reputation, and yet are responsible for atrocities in Burma, Thailand, and Sri Lanka. Should we be treating Buddhism on a par with Naziism? Surely not--there has to be room for some nuance, or else we are all doomed and damned. Doesn't Islam deserve the same consideration as Buddhism (and the other religions)?


I don't know why this type of argument is put forth so often. Isn't it obvious it's flawed? The reason Buddhism doesn't get criticized when certain individuals who claim to be Buddhist do horrible things is because the teachings of Buddhism don't promote those violent acts. Those acts exist entirely separate from the core teachings of the religion. Please, find me somewhere in Buddhism that says atheists in Burma should be killed. You won't find it.

When Muslims commit horrible acts in the name of Allah and Islam, the religion rightfully gets criticized because guess what, those exact horrific acts are encouraged and celebrated within the teachings of the religion from start to finish. It wouldn't take longer than 2 minutes to find those teachings in the Quran.


I certainly hope you can see the difference between Buddhists killing people and Muslims killing people, at least from the perspective of what role the religion plays.

Islam is a religion of violence, intolerance, and injustice from top to bottom. Thank God most Muslims don't understand their own religion enough to know that because most Muslims surprisingly are peaceful and kind, despite the direct and overt contradictions to that peace littered on every page of their holy books.

And just to appease the false equivalency crowd, yes the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. :)
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby Beitouzen » 14 Feb 2016, 15:25

BrentGolf wrote:And just to appease the false equivalency crowd, yes the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. :)


Getting closer to the truth is better than appeasing them.

The same can be said about the old testament, but christian teaching is very clear about the importance of the new testament, which DO NOT promote violence, and that the old testament belong to pre-civilization times.
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby BrentGolf » 14 Feb 2016, 15:30

Beitouzen wrote:
BrentGolf wrote:And just to appease the false equivalency crowd, yes the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. :)


Getting closer to the truth is better than appeasing them.

The same can be said about the old testament, but christian teaching is very clear about the importance of the new testament, which DO NOT promote violence, and that the old testament belong to pre-civilization times.



So vicarious redemption through human sacrifice is not violence? Condemning people to an eternity of torment in hell for the crime of being born in the wrong country or to the wrong parents is not violent?

There are many ways to define violence, but I'm quite comfortable saying the New Testament has it's fair share.


"So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds."

What a lovely non violent passage from the wonderful new testament.
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby Tempo Gain » 14 Feb 2016, 18:11

BrentGolf wrote:
And just to appease the false equivalency crowd, yes the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. :)


I'm glad you've finally come around to recognizing this :)
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby BrentGolf » 14 Feb 2016, 18:22

Tempo Gain wrote:
BrentGolf wrote:
And just to appease the false equivalency crowd, yes the same can be said about Christians and Christianity. :)


I'm glad you've finally come around to recognizing this :)



Huh? I'm pretty sure when I was 7 years old I knew Christianity was a religion of violence and repulsiveness. I think on a spectrum Islam is the worst, and Christianity is a close 2nd place. How is that me coming around? Christianity is horrible, I've always thought so.
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby Tempo Gain » 14 Feb 2016, 18:27

I was referring to the discussion we had a while back in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=86&t=153544&start=10#p1718759
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby BrentGolf » 14 Feb 2016, 18:33

You said I'm coming around, meaning at some point before, I didn't recognize that Christianity was also a religion of violence.

That is a mischaracterization of anything I've said on the subject, because at no time in my life have I not despised Christianity. Now it's true that I've argued many times that Islam is worse, and I've also argued that Christianity is watered down and reformed to the point that it poses a lesser threat to the world. But at no time have I ever not recognized that it's a religion of violence.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you meant by I have come around. From where to where exactly do you think I've moved?
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby Tempo Gain » 14 Feb 2016, 18:48

What I said in the other post is nothing more than what you said above as far as I can see, but you disagreed with me at length about it, specifically calling it a "false equivalence", a term you used again above, though I'm not sure what you are referring to by it at this point.

Is it not fair to say that something more than the content of the Koran is responsible for Islamic political violence? That's all I ever asserted.
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Re: Is Islam a religion of peace?

Postby BrentGolf » 14 Feb 2016, 19:01

I agree with you that I used the term false equivalence in two different threads, but the similarities seem to end there.

In the one thread you presented a false equivalence. I was speaking directly about Islam, and you came in and said yeah well, Christianity and the bible is also such and such. It's a common thing that when people are speaking negatively about Islam, others feel this need to try to include the Bible in the conversation. I find this desire to always bring up Christianity in conversations about Islam very odd.

In this thread, I said to APPEASE the false equivalency crowd (which I felt that after what I said about Islam would no doubt be coming shortly) I will get ahead of it and say yes, Christianity is ALSO a religion of violence. Of course Christianity is irrelevant to the question of whether Islam is a religion of peace, but I'm happy to throw out the appeasement to avoid the lengthy false equivalency arguments that are sure to follow.


Again I fail to see where "I came around." Show me where I went from thinking X, to now thinking Y. That's what coming around means does it not?


Tempo Gain wrote:Is it not fair to say that something more than the content of the Koran is responsible for Islamic political violence? That's all I ever asserted.


I'm quite sure I could quote mine myself dozens of times where I said exactly that. Of course it's more than just the words, who ever said anything else. Of course it's socio economics, politics, tribalism, etc etc... AND it's the horrific nature of the Quran.

If that's all you ever asserted, then aren't we now, just like then, in total agreement that it's a multitude of things? I'm so confused.
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