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Taiwan (German) country code 465

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Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby Hartzell » 25 Aug 2014, 10:44

Hello:

According to recent articles in the China Post, Taipei Times, (and of course the local Chinese press), a number of Taiwanese individuals in Germany have been upset because they say Taiwan's national status has been downgraded. This was discovered when applying for social insurance membership in Germany recently. To the surprise of these Taiwan individuals, apparently, their nationality status is now listed as “Chinesisch” (China) with code name 479 instead of “Taiwanesisch” (Taiwan) with code name 465 as it used to be.

CHINA POST -- http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/intl ... wan-to.htm

TAIPEI TIMES -- http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003598076

For my own knowledge, I am wondering if anyone can provide an internet reference to what sort of country codes are being referred to here? I have briefly checked the internet, but I don't find any references to Taiwan having a country code of 465 (except in these recent English language newspaper articles). Can anyone familiar with the situation in Germany, and/or in Europe, offer some illumination on this numbering issue? Thank you.
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby hansioux » 25 Aug 2014, 10:55

having lived there, it's a huge bummer....
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby Hokwongwei » 25 Aug 2014, 11:20

Taiwanreporter said he believed there was a misunderstanding. On Facebook, he said he contacted officials in Germany and is waiting for a response.
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby sofun » 30 Aug 2014, 08:43

Storm Media said that roc foreign ministry said that Germany told them it will change Taiwan from 479 to 465. But nationality will be a dash "-".

http://www.stormmediagroup.com/opencms/ ... 2804cba5a1
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby yuli » 30 Aug 2014, 15:02

Hartzell wrote:For my own knowledge, I am wondering if anyone can provide an internet reference to what sort of country codes are being referred to here?

According to this document at https://www.statistik.bayern.de/medien/ ... dienst.pdf from the summer of last year, (see end of page 4 and top of page 5 there), and this document at https://www.statistik.bayern.de/medien/ ... s_2013.pdf (see page 10 there), the Federal Statistical Office of Germany (see this page for an explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_St ... of_Germany ) has abolished country code (German: "Länderschlüssel") 465=Taiwan, and Taiwanese citizens are now to be counted under country code (German: "Länderschlüssel") 479=China. (I'll post more information once I have received it.)
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby Belgian Pie » 30 Aug 2014, 18:09

Well the German government cleaning up ... they also are working on abolishing double nationality for many people.
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby hsinhai78 » 30 Aug 2014, 19:44

These Taiwhiners* sure are an ignorant lot. It is entirely meaningless what code the German government designates. This is a purely administrative process. Taiwan having its own designator, Taiwan being referred to as "Taiwan", "Taiwan, China" or "China (Taipei)" does not alter the de-iure stance of the German government: Taiwan is not a country, hence there is no such thing as a distinct Taiwanese citizenship. There merely is a belonger status of people to Taiwan, same as in the case of Hong Kong or Macau. Any case officer at a municipal immigration authority can attest to that. And that is what matters, not the ridiculous Taiwhining and stories of how Germany will change this or that.

If these Taiwhiners were serious about being anti-China and having a distinct identity, they would stop whining and change the name of their country to "Independent State of Taiwan". Too much effort probably.


* refers to Taiwanese who whine about these kind of non-issues.
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby yuli » 01 Sep 2014, 20:12

yuli wrote:I'll post more information once I have received it.

Here it is:

Im Jahr 2012 hat DESTATIS seine Klassifikation grundsätzlich überarbeitet und in diesem Zusammenhang gesonderte Schlüssel für Staat und Staatsangehörigkeit eingeführt. In diesem Zusammenhang erfolgte eine Abstimmung mit dem Auswärtigen Amt; die Systematik wurde mit den entsprechenden Veröffentlichungen des Auswärtigen Amtes verzahnt.

DESTATIS = the Federal Statistical Office
Auswärtigen Amt = Federal Foreign Office (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Of ... Germany%29)

DESTATIS changed its classification system in 2012 and adjusted it to that used by the Foreign Office;

Die "Staatsschlüssel " in der Staatssystematik entsprechen dabei der vom Auswärtigen Amt herausgegebenen Liste der "Verzeichnis der Staatennamen für den amtlichen Gebrauch", in dem alle Staaten aufgeführt sind, die von der Bundesrepublik Deutschland diplomatisch anerkannt sind (vgl. http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/cae/serv ... nnamen.pdf). China gehört zu diesen diplomatisch anerkannten Staaten, Taiwan jedoch nicht.

The coding matches therefore that used in the list of states that Germany recognizes. China is recognized as a country by Germany, Taiwan is not.

Da es die Bundesrepublik Deutschland jedoch in bestimmten Fällen akzeptiert, wenn sich Personen bei der Einreise oder der Anmeldung mit Dokumenten (Pass- oder Passerdsatzpapiere) ausweisen, die von Behörden aus von der Bunderepublik Deutschland diplomatisch nicht anerkannten Staaten ausgestellt sind (wie dies bei Taiwan der Fall ist), kann die Staatssystematik nicht ausschließlich auf dem "Verzeichnis der Staatennamen für den amtlichen Gebrauch" basieren. Vielmehr werden zusätzlich Einträge des ebenfalls vom Auswärtigen Amt herausgegebenen "Länderverzeichnis für den amtlichen Gebrauch in der Bundesrepublik Deutschland" (vgl. http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/cae/serv ... ichnis.pdf) verwendet.

There are however situations where Germany accepts travel documents that have been issued by countries that Germany does not recognize (as it the case with Taiwan). for this purpose additional lists have been created.

In der vom 01.01.2013 bis 31.12.2013 gültigen Fassung der Staatssystematik galten für Taiwan folgende Angaben:
– Staatsangehörigkeit: Schlüssel=465; Bezeichnung="chinesisch (Taipeh)"
– Staat: Schlüssel=478; Bezeichnung="China".

From 2013-01-01 until 2013-12-31 this new classification system shown above had been used, but

Im Laufe des Jahres 2013 wurde DESTATIS informiert, dass es im Fall von Taiwan zu Missverständnissen bei der Anwendung der Systematik komme, wenn Behörden anstelle des Eintrags für die Staatsangehörigkeit fälschlicherweise den Eintrag des Staates verwendeten.

it led to misunderstandings, and mistakes were made when entering data, therefore

DESTATIS hat in Abstimmung mit dem Auswärtigen Amt eine Lösung gefunden, die derartige Eingabefehler wirksam ausschließen wird – das Feld "Staat" (Schlüssel und Bezeichnung) bleibt leer. Diese Lösung ist seit dem 01.01.2014 gültig.
Seit dem 01.01.2014 gelten für Taiwan die folgenden Angaben:
– Staatsangehörigkeit: Schlüssel=465; Bezeichnung="chinesisch (Taipeh)"
– Staat: Schlüssel=—; Bezeichnung=.

the Federal Statistical Office of Germany changed the system in 2014-01-01 and now accounts for Taiwan as the article explains that sofun posted a link to...

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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby StefanMuc » 17 Sep 2014, 19:34

If it's of interest, Klaus Bardenhagen has an article on this, here:
http://www.intaiwan.de/2014/09/16/taiwa ... ina-policy
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Re: Taiwan (German) country code 465

Postby bob_honest » 18 Sep 2014, 11:17

Ah yes, the Klaus Bardenhagen Blog clears it up.

Taiwan:
before 1989: China (Taiwan), citizenship 465, country 465
1989 to September 2011: Taiwan, citizenship 465, country 465
September 2011 to 2014: Taiwan, citizenship 479, country 479
from January 2014: Taiwan, nationality Chinese (Taipei), citizenship 465, country: blank



But China (PRC):

People’s Republic of China (Volksrepublik China)

Area (Gebiet): 479
Citizenship (Staatsangehörigkeit): 479
Citizenship (in written form): Chinese / chinesisch


So it is "Chinese (Taipei)" which is a different country code than China. A dude or gal from China has Chinese/479, someone from Taiwan has now Chinese(Taipei)/465.


http://www.intaiwan.de/2014/09/16/taiwan-german-one-china-policy/#more-5972
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