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Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

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Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Cola » 16 Jul 2015, 13:38

Pingdong County’s Siaoliouciou Island (小琉球) is called Little Okinawa in translation. This little islet off the coast of Pingdong does not look like Okinawa [琉球] at all but for some reason for many years locals have nicknamed it as Little Okinawa or ''Siao liou ciou'' in Mandarin.

QUESTION: why on Earth ( and in Taiwan ) is it called LITTLE Okinawa and who coined the name for this islet? Is there a local legend or a story behind this mis-naming that somehow stuck?

News item for reference:

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003623011
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Hokwongwei » 16 Jul 2015, 13:50

Jesus TMD Christ, Taipei Times just won't let go of Tongyong Pinyin, will they? Their ideological constraints are really holding that paper back.

Anyway... No, not Okinawa. Okinawa is 沖繩, whereas 琉球 is Ryukyu. (Okinawa is one of the Ryuku Islands, so confusing them is like conflating Taipei with Taiwan... which the country's Olympic teams still can't get straight!)

Liuqiu used to be a vague term for islands east of China (see Wikipedia), which would include Taiwan. We all know how non-specific Chinese can be at time, and this was no exception. So if Okinawa was Greater Liuqiu, Taiwan and its islets were Lesser Liuqiu. Which is funny, since the island of Taiwan is about 30 times the island of Okinawa...
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby hansioux » 16 Jul 2015, 14:16

Hokwongwei wrote:Jesus TMD Christ, Taipei Times just won't let go of Tongyong Pinyin, will they? Their ideological constraints are really holding that paper back.

Anyway... No, not Okinawa. Okinawa is 沖繩, whereas 琉球 is Ryuku. (Okinawa is one of the Ryuku Islands, so confusing them is like conflating Taipei with Taiwan... which the country's Olympic teams still can't get straight!)

Liuqiu used to be a vague term for islands east of China (see Wikipedia), which would include Taiwan. We all know how non-specific Chinese can be at time, and this was no exception. So if Okinawa was Greater Liuqiu, Taiwan and its islets were Lesser Liuqiu. Which is funny, since the island of Taiwan is about 30 times the island of Okinawa...


Greater Ryukyu and Lesser Ryukyu began showing up in Japanese and Chinese documents around late 1200s. Greater Ryukyu refers to Okinawa, but it is never concrete where Lesser Ryukyu refers to.

Pre-European occupation, the first map showing Taiwan is a 1554 world map by Lopo Homem, which had an island named Fermosa, although has the shape and location of Penghu. In 1561, a Portuguese world map by Bartholomeu Velho had Taiwan divided into two islands. The one in the North is Fermosa, and the one in the south is Lequeo Pequeno, which would be Little Ryukyu.

Image
Lopo Homem's map. From the Penghu looking Fermosa northward, there's Ilhas dos Reis Magos (Miyako jima), Ilhas dos Lequios?, Lequios?, Ilha do Fogo?, and I can't make out the rest....

Ten years later, two Portuguese maps of East Asia, one dating 1568 and the other 1571, by Fernao Vaz Dourado and Lazaro Luiz had Taiwan divided into 3 islands. The one in the south is the biggest, the one in the north is the smallest, and there's no label of Formosa anywhere. The island in the north is labelled Lequeo Pequeno.

A dutch map of China from 1584 by Abraham Ortelius & Ludovico Georio had Taiwan as 2 islands. Formosa in the north, and Lequeio Parva in the south. Later Dutch maps added a nameless middle island.

After the Dutch occupied Taiwan, they realized there is only one major island. The first European map with just 1 island would be the Dutch's 1625 map of Packan (Taiwan), by Jacob Noordeloos. Then for a while they had Taiwan with only the west coast on the maps. Then they had the east coast, but believed it to be 3 smaller islands surrounded by the western regions.

After the Dutch and the Spaniards left the region, European's knowledge of Formosa regressed and Taiwan was shown as 3 smaller islands again in a couple of maps back in the 17th century.

more maps:
http://www.taiwancon.com/599/%E5%9C%8B% ... %A9100.htm
http://hychuang.blogspot.tw/2009/04/blog-post.html
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Cola » 16 Jul 2015, 20:54

thank you both above, for good answers, that SETTLES it.

So that little islet is not Little Okinawa but Little *Ryukyu* [Fixed, edited, thanks below commenter]. Thanks for clariying that to this busasa map lover.
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Chris » 17 Jul 2015, 04:33

Ryukyu, not Ryuku.
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Hokwongwei » 17 Jul 2015, 05:35

Thanks for catching my typo. :)
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby hannes » 17 Jul 2015, 08:53

The Portuguese and their cartography skills... Couldn't they just make maps from NASA images? So schtupid. :doh:
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Icon » 17 Jul 2015, 09:41

Hokwongwei wrote:Jesus TMD Christ, Taipei Times just won't let go of Tongyong Pinyin, will they? Their ideological constraints are really holding that paper back.

Anyway... No, not Okinawa. Okinawa is 沖繩, whereas 琉球 is Ryukyu. (Okinawa is one of the Ryuku Islands, so confusing them is like conflating Taipei with Taiwan... which the country's Olympic teams still can't get straight!)

Liuqiu used to be a vague term for islands east of China (see Wikipedia), which would include Taiwan. We all know how non-specific Chinese can be at time, and this was no exception. So if Okinawa was Greater Liuqiu, Taiwan and its islets were Lesser Liuqiu. Which is funny, since the island of Taiwan is about 30 times the island of Okinawa...


At least they have some kind of system and not "I went to Harvard and I know how to write my name/everything else in English".
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby schwarzwald » 18 Jul 2015, 21:25

It used to be called Lamey Island, and was ethnically cleansed by the Dutch and rival tribes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamey_Island_Massacre)
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Re: Pingdong County’s ''Siao liou ciou'' Island [Little Okinawa?] (小琉球)

Postby Cola » 19 Jul 2015, 20:30

schwarzwald wrote:It used to be called Lamey Island, and was ethnically cleansed by the Dutch and rival tribes. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamey_Island_Massacre)



Good find! Who was Lamey?

Oh, I see: Lamey, Lamay or ''Gouden Leeuwseylant''
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