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Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

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Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby bob_honest » 21 Nov 2014, 15:56

Well, now that wife and I are considering migration to Manila (which is not the subject of discussion here :cool: ) the question arose what will be with my old age insurance entitlement in Taiwan. I mean I had been in the Labor law old age insurance since I started working here in 2004. Wife now thinks all my entitlements would be lost if I do not complete the 15 years payment into the system which normally need to be done.

My own interpretation is that I could get a lump-sum payment when the time comes even if I did not complete the 15 years. A nice website for such things is http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D which rather seems to confirm my point of view.

But now the wife says: For foreigners they will only pay if they live with an ARC in Taiwan. Meaning if we were to live in Philippines or Germany or where ever she thinks I will not get any payment. The websites from the Taiwan gov seem to avoid this point.

Question: Any practical experience here? How realistic is it for a foreigner to get something out of the old age insurance system when the time comes?

I am now end of 40ish and married in Taiwan, if that is of relevance.
Taiwan is like Zimbabwe: Cheating foreigners out of their monthly old age labor-law pension: read here: https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138311&p=1736162#p1736162
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby bob_honest » 24 Nov 2014, 09:31

Well, I guess the question remains open. Now it seems to be more important in Taiwan what a clerk in an office thinks would be the law, than what the law actually says. And if they do not mention ARC/residence in Taiwan I guess a clerk might be tempted to try to avoid payment to the adogah applying for his old age pension. I am just remembering the campaigns where Taiwan asks for more foreign workforce / foreign experts. Making sure they are actually paying the pensions would be a first step in making the island attractive I think.
Taiwan is like Zimbabwe: Cheating foreigners out of their monthly old age labor-law pension: read here: https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138311&p=1736162#p1736162
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby Markova » 24 Nov 2014, 16:11

I thought foreigner were only allowed to enter the local "pension scheme" this year?

If that's the case how could you participated into that system the past few years?

Maybe you could apply the minimum retirement pension in Germany if they provide such help, when the time comes.
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby bob_honest » 20 May 2016, 13:37

Late response: Well, I am in the labor law old age insurance system, which was available for a long time for foreigners. However what you talk about seems to be the "other" old age insurance which is called National Pension. This is open since 2013 for foreigners married to Taiwan citizens.

According to the English labor law pages like this one (http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D) a one-time payment applies if the insured person (labor law!) has less than 15 years contribution to labor law old age insurance. After that a monthly payment would be given.

However there is a German Facebook group where someone however having the public-service (gov clerk) old age insurance and being German does NOT get the monthly old age payment even though he would be eligible for it. Simply because he is a bign... I mean ... not a Taiwan citizen.

This leads to the conclusion this open breaking of their own laws might also occur for the labor law insurance - as it usually offers less benefits than the public service insurance.

To repeat:

Looks like Taiwan will cheat foreigners eligible for labor law old age insurance into a one - time payment which is much less. Difference can be 96 Euro monthly versus 288 Euro monthly (assuming the foreigner lives til his 80th birthday and then calculating the one-time payment monthly; counting 15 years contribution).

Reference (German FB group):https://www.facebook.com/groups/287698284706718/642737999202743/?comment_id=643151929161350&notif_t=like
Taiwan is like Zimbabwe: Cheating foreigners out of their monthly old age labor-law pension: read here: https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138311&p=1736162#p1736162
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby yyy » 20 May 2016, 15:14

bob_honest wrote:Late response: Well, I am in the labor law old age insurance system, which was available for a long time for foreigners. However what you talk about seems to be the "other" old age insurance which is called National Pension. This is open since 2013 for foreigners married to Taiwan citizens.

According to the English labor law pages like this one (http://www.bli.gov.tw/en/sub.aspx?a=n9N84vZDrjw%3D) a one-time payment applies if the insured person (labor law!) has less than 15 years contribution to labor law old age insurance. After that a monthly payment would be given.

However there is a German Facebook group where someone however having the public-service (gov clerk) old age insurance and being German does NOT get the monthly old age payment even though he would be eligible for it. Simply because he is a bign... I mean ... not a Taiwan citizen.

This leads to the conclusion this open breaking of their own laws might also occur for the labor law insurance - as it usually offers less benefits than the public service insurance.

To repeat:

Looks like Taiwan will cheat foreigners eligible for labor law old age insurance into a one - time payment which is much less. Difference can be 96 Euro monthly versus 288 Euro monthly (assuming the foreigner lives til his 80th birthday and then calculating the one-time payment monthly; counting 15 years contribution).

Reference (German FB group):https://www.facebook.com/groups/287698284706718/642737999202743/?comment_id=643151929161350&notif_t=like

I'm not familiar with it, but I thought that was a different type of insurance (公務人員保險?) and therefore governed by a different law.
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby bob_honest » 20 May 2016, 16:27

Yes, the Public service pension is governed by a different law and there is no English info to be found or hardly anything meaningful. At least I failed last time I googled. Yet in the German discussion group the logic was like this:

a) Public service pension coverage is stronger than general labor law pension coverage.
b) They kick out foreigners out of the monthly payment.

Conclusion (not valid in a strict sense): The weaker labor law pension administration will kick out foreigners as well.

Not sure, but it seems likely, doesn't it?
Taiwan is like Zimbabwe: Cheating foreigners out of their monthly old age labor-law pension: read here: https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138311&p=1736162#p1736162
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby afterspivak » 20 May 2016, 20:22

Please fight for inclusion. This stuff really matters.

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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby bob_honest » 20 May 2016, 20:28

Wife currently says we will be rich soon anyway, so who cares ;-) You know, her business ideas (giggle).
However I will probably get a lawyer on this in case I ever get to stay the 3 more years here I would need for the monthly coverage. Meaning: When I turn 67, which is still quite a while away.

The Germans seemingly gave up so far, but I do not know what the law says regarding the Public Service Pension.
Taiwan is like Zimbabwe: Cheating foreigners out of their monthly old age labor-law pension: read here: https://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=138311&p=1736162#p1736162
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby jesus80 » 21 May 2016, 13:05

following... just in case.
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Re: Getting something out of old age insurance when the time comes?

Postby hsinhai78 » 21 May 2016, 16:58

bob_honest wrote:Yes, the Public service pension is governed by a different law and there is no English info to be found or hardly anything meaningful. At least I failed last time I googled. Yet in the German discussion group the logic was like this:

a) Public service pension coverage is stronger than general labor law pension coverage.
b) They kick out foreigners out of the monthly payment.

Conclusion (not valid in a strict sense): The weaker labor law pension administration will kick out foreigners as well.

Not sure, but it seems likely, doesn't it?


Ah wonderful. Germans thinking they have it all figured out :D

The Labor Pension Act equally applies to foreigns spouses.
http://law.moj.gov.tw/eng/LawClass/LawSearchNo.aspx?PC=N0030020&DF=&SNo=7
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